Monday, October 6, 2008

Questions on Napping and CIO

For those of you with successful sleepers (and success in my book is anything close to a six hour stretch during the night), I have some questions!

On napping during the day. . .

Do you wake your baby(ies) from naps that go longer than three hours? Or just let them sleep?

How many hours a day would you say they get (total) from napping?

Do they sleep all of their naps in their crib (or bassinet)? Or do they get naps in swings, strollers, carseats, etc.?

And on Crying It Out (Parent Controlled Crying, Ferber, etc.). . .

What age did you start?

How long did/does your baby(ies) typically cry?

Any advice? Resources or books that helped you?

We are not really thinking about doing CIO yet. Our pediatrician and my Mom Hero Amy (IVF B/G Twins) both say no to that until 4 - 5 months when infants have the ability to self-soothe. However, I want to start reading ahead so that I am prepared if (and probably when) we need to go down that route. I am eager to hear about real life success stories and how you got there!

Oh, and our own personal success for today? I put Will down for his morning nap. . . and took a shower with the monitor in the bathroom. I kept waiting for the wail that I thought was coming for sure. Instead, by the time I was out of the shower, toweled off, and in my clothes for the day, he was fast asleep! And stayed that way for an hour and fifteen minutes! Other than that, he is napping in his swing during the day and sleeping in his crib at night.

One small victory at a time. . .


Road Blocks and Roller Coasters said...

I don't know that we qualify as successful, though Lemy sleeps at night she just doesn't nap. Ever.

I'm currently working on this very issue with Lemy and just got Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Children. It's a lot of common sense, but it basically says that babies shouldn't be up more than 2 hours at a stretch and need to nap to sleep well at night.

They suggest CIO, as does my ped (even though Lemy is only 2 months old), but I've let her cry a bit and then gone in to soothe. I can't say its working, but I'm trying. They also say that CIO shouldn't be used before 8 weeks and is ideal at the 3rd/4th month.

Anyway, I'm definitely curious to see the answers to your questions. Thanks for posting them! :)

Kim said...

I wish that I had some good advice to offer. We're not at the point that you are because we HAVE to wake M up to eat. No choice in the matter.

My only suggestion is to get into a good routine. After he eats and burps, give him a good 30-45 minutes of hardcore playtime. Maybe a combination of tummy time, 'baby exercise' (as we call it), etc. And then let him have another hour or so in the swing or bouncer or floor or wherever (goal being so that you have a chance to get some stuff done). And then he should be good and tired, instead of just taking cat naps when he isn't tired enough to sleep for a good chunk of time.

It's so hard for me to not rush to a crying baby. But a lot of the time, I force myself not to, and she calms herself down almost immediately. I would just do what you're comfortable with.. as great as a schedule is, it's better to have a mommy and baby who aren't stressed out trying to fit some mold of perfect patterns.

That's what we do, at least.. and it seems to work well. I only wish we could let her stay asleep!

Good luck!

Anonymous said...

I, personally, think that the answers to SO many of your questions vary baby to baby. My daughter would sleep anywhere and got naps in small doses throughout the day. My son only slept in his crib during nap times (2-3 times a day for 1-3 hours) on a very overly scheduled basis. Same for CIO - My daughter was the model child for CIO and my son acted as though maybe we didn't really love him any more. While I know that's not much help - I just feel like you should know going in that anything you try should all depend on what works best for baby and mommy!

Amy said...

I like to call it the "2 hours on, 2 hours off" routine...which if you do the math most kids (give or take a half hour and again, all rules out the door with teething and sickness!) So the kids would wake at 7, eat, get fussy around 9 (2 hours later) then eat, sleep till 11, eat, fuss around 1, eat, sleep up at 3, eat and then up till 7pm (eat, sleep). So, that being said, it will work if you start feeding him after a couple of hours in the a.m..put him down, CIO, and he will sleep for 1.5-2 hrs I bet (like the shower incident this morning) In fact, you should make it routine to feed him after a couple hours of awake time in the a.m, put him down, let him CIO while you are in the will make it easier....then after he wakes, let him stay up for a couple more hours and repeat......should work brilliantly..and it's hard dude, but you will be surpised after a couple of days, he will start to get it!! GOOD LUCK! Love ya and thanks for the shout are my hero right now! Can't imagine the I haven't had anything to drink but I feel hungover everyday no sleep feelingg you are going thru.....hugs!

Fertilized said...

MT is sleeping 11-12 hours at night (about 8:00pm - 7/8am) He also weighs ~15lbs. I know alot of the sleep requirements suggest that once they reach a 12lb mark, their eating and sleeping patterns change a bit. (gives you longer inbetween feedings and naps a bit longer)

(we also kind of cluster feed when he first wakes up in the morning for an hr and start up again at 6pm. - hourish before bedtime)

As for naps during the day - We get a 30-45 min nap around 10:30am-11am. (in a pack in play)Then I feed him again and put him in the bouncy seat/exersauser or on the floor for a while .... (or run errands)

While running errands he is now not falling asleep as much. but will nap in his carseat at times or while being pushed in the stroller.

Depending on if we are running errands or home he may nap for about another 15-30 mins around 1pm.

Then he usually wants another nap around 3-4pm. This is the nap that i am usually home for. and i put him in the swing with music on. He will sleep there for about 1.5-2 hours give or take.

If I know that I am not going to be home for that time - I put him in hte swing for the 10/11am nap with swing/music combo ..he naps for about 1.5-2hours in the swing regardless of the time i guess

I may not completely understand the cio method.. but I will let him fuss/whine and try to soothe himself - but I know there is a cry that once he starts that crying there is no going back. I listen to the type of cry and work with that. But that also was not til he was 3 months old. Before 3 months old, I would try to rub his belly while he was crying to see if that would work before having to pick him up..sometimes it did, other times not so much.

So basically, He likes to nap about 1.5/2 hours after he starts eating. He is eating every 3-4 hours. So a rough total of 14-16 hours of sleeping a day.

We did NOT get onto this rhythm until 2 weeks ago.
Up until that moment, naps were only done while and when I would hold him or we were driving mostly .. SO you are one up on me.

I just recently have tried laying MT in the swing/ crib/pnp when I notices sleepy cues. He will talk/soothe/hum himself to sleep ,, This has worked best for us rather than me trying to dictate his sleep time. Insist of dictating I try and assist when he is tired. I have not read alot of books, I gave up on them early on so I am not sure if all of this is all against the saged experts advice. We were demand feeding at first and I didn't see a way around that. Now I am able to recognize the hunger/sleepy etc cues so much better so I just try to work with all of that. It seemed to just get a whole lot easier at 3.5 months. I did nothig differently at all - it just seemed to slack up or I got used to it or something. It just seems much easier now all of a sudden ... Just like a switch was turned on and MT and I just jive so much better .... w/o any real major change .. He just seems to be so much more content and happy most days just hangin out

Hope there was some helpful info in all of that - If not that ok too.

Sending you lots of good luck vibes

Joy said...

Well I have two girlies so I'll try to be fair. One was a good sleeper (so long as I held her) and the other was a champion.

I did wake my girls up if their naps were more than 2 hours.

As newborns they got 6-8 hours from napping, I think. *FUZZY BRAIN*

My kids napped where they would nap. If it was my bed, then I'd lay down with them and read. If it was the swing, it was the swing. I was not picky about it.

CIO- didn't work for us. My oldest (she's more sensitive, loves to cuddle and be held all the time) once cried for 2 hours straight and it was terrible. But I had to leave her in the crib because I was so upset that I was afraid I'd hurt her or put my fist through a wall in frustration. She was 6-8 months old, I think. And she was perfectly fine once I picked her up. It had nothing to do with feeling ill or being hungry!

With our second, who is more independent, hates to cuddle/swaddled/touched- she slept through the night from 2 months old and on. I could put her to bed fully awake and she'd be fine. However, there were (and are) nights where she fusses.

Fussing is different from crying. Fussing is more of a whining, groaning about going to bed and it can last a while. Most of the time she'll whine for a few minutes and then it is silent (to self-soothe babies will talk to themselves or groan/gurgle, so it's normal).

If my 2nd daughter cries, though, I typically answer her VERY quickly since she never cries and I know something is wrong when she does.

Getting to know his personality will be the best thing. Around 2-3 months you'll have a lot of his personality figured out.

Joy said...

Oh, and a little fussing/crying in the middle of the night is fine! I would always wait a few minutes to see if the crying intensified (meaning hunger, poo poo, or just scared) or if it slowly calmed down.

Every person wakes up throughout the night. We just don't realize it. Babies do, too. Sometimes they cry out in their sleep. I can't count the times I've heard my girls giggling, talking, or crying only to find them fast asleep when I went in there.

Geohde said...

Ok, what is rocking on for me may not work for you (because if one method works for all babaies, we'd all happily be doing exactly the same thing! ANd there'd be much less advice books out there)

We keep our twins awake as much as possible during the day (rockers/playmat etc and don't swaddle...except for one nap in the middle of the day where we swaddle and put in their cots- sleep associations, you see).

We put them in their cots at night (swaddled), and let then cry a little if they do, which now they don't. Never has it gone more than the ten minute trigger or defcon ten distress that requires intervention/cuddles. They've therefore learned to get themselves back to sleep when they wake up at ever sleep cycle without our intervention.

They take a bigger bottle before bed and in the morning and so don;t wake hungry. We get nearly seven hours now :)



Jen said...

Quite interesting! I shall be bookmarking this to read later!

Christy said...

Hmmm, I'm afraid I don't have anything really helpful for you. We are lucky in that Andy is a really good sleeper and he knows his routine better than we do.

If he is sleeping (whether in the crib, pack n play, swing, bouncy seat, whatever) and starts fussing we wait a couple of minutes to see if he will settle himself or not. Sometimes we'll just give him a pacifier. If it changes to actual crying we pick him up and attend to his needs.

Right now he's napping, and I think down for an hour or two, so I better get to cleaning the house!

Good luck!

Melissa said...

Try to remember that this is a phase....and a relatively short one at that. In a few months....think about that, a few MONTHS, all of this will be behind you. Think of all that you went through to get here, think of all of the months of pain you endured to have Will. As a fellow survivor of infertility, and now a single mom of twins (who were born very prematurely and now both have special needs), I am telling you that you can handle this and so much more. I know you are tired, and exhausted, and cranky. But, you can handle it. This really is such a short phase, and such a tiny time span. It will be over before you know and you won't remember why it all seemed like such a big deal.

Ms. J said...

Okay, my experience/tale is different since I leapt into full-fledged toddlerhood 2 months ago as a first-time parent . . .

BUT . . . I have come to realize that Lil Pumpkin functions best when she has a combine 2 hours per day of nap time. Either 2 one-hour naps or one long one. If it's more than 2 hours combined, it's going to negatively impact her getting to bed more or less on the schedule we have fallen into. Which means it throws off the following day.

So, my advice is . . . look at it cumulatively when it comes to napping.

I try to avoid her being in the car after 7:00 p.m., cause it could (esp. with it being darker earlier now) lull her into an early bedtime which means wake-up time the next day will come FAR too early for Mommy & Daddy. Hope that makes sense?

Elle Charlie said...

Glad you had a peaceful shower! As for the rest of it, no advice to give as I haven't gone through it. Sorry! But really... glad you are getting a little more *you* time.

Kathy said...

Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child by Dr. Mark Weisbleuth (sp?) helped me sooooo much when Sean was a baby through toddler. It showed me how important sleep is and how so often when they are upset they are overtired. I believe we started "training" Sean to sleep around 10-12 weeks. It wasn't always easy, especially when he was transitioning out of naps, from 3 times, to 2 times, to 1 time to none.

Also, though letting them CIO may seem cruel at first, as the book explains all throughout your child's life you will do things that are best for their well being and they may not like it and cry, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't look out for their safety, health and happiness.

Some of our family members and friends thought we were nuts how early we would put him to bed at times, but it made sense and worked for us! We also had both of our mothers read it too (actually my SIL took care of that w/ my MIL, as she read it first and turned me on to it) in effort to get them on board.

Good luck! I know that sleep issues with an infant can be very frustrating. I do think that healthy sleep habits are worth it and do make a happy child! :)

Gibson Twins said...

I am not sure if even putting my info here is a good idea because we really did not follow the "rules" with the babies.

We have just started to let them cry it out at bedtime (about 2-3 times a week they will protest bedtime). And unless the nap longer than 3 hours is going to push bedtime out too late, I will let them sleep. Mine are still taking a morning nap 1.5 hrs and an afternoon nap (as long as they need but generally about 2 hrs).

We did not put the twins in their cribs for naps until 8 months. I used to rock them in their carseats filled with blankets and the canopies pulled with my feet (how pathetic I KNOW!).

Anonymous said...

I dont know if this is helpful for u, but this was our experiences with my son and daughter. We co slept until 4mths old.They were both getting up 2 times a night to feed. Both were/are breastfed. 4-5mths is the best age. They can self soothe, but arent too old to be stuck in their ways about sleep.

With my son, the transition to the crib in another room was kinda difficult. I dont know if it was because he was our firstborn, but it was not fun. But after 2-3 nights of crying, he slept thru the night. 10hrs. The first night I think he cried for 3hrs straight. Its hard to listen to your baby cry. We just stuck to our guns, so to speak, and stuck it out. It is far worth it in the long run to have a few nights of little sleep vs. mths and mths of little sleep. My daughter we did the same thing at 4mths, (she is 7mths now). She cried for maybe 1hr the first night. Never a peep after. She sleeps 12 hrs a night. Both my children sleep well! My son who is 2 takes 1 nap a day at noon everyday. My daughter takes 2 naps at 930 and 1230. No napping past 430pm! Bedtime is always 7pm for her and 830 for him. We never deviate. Its important to keep a schedule and stick to it!

I read the Babywise book. The whole premise is that you are in control of sleep & feedings, not the baby. Crying never hurts a baby. I think it hurts the parent more=( As long as you go and check on them and they are ok, do not pick the baby up. The next night, the crying will decrease in time. Babies will cry exactly as long as it takes to get you pick them up each night. For example, if it takes 30min. they will cry exaclty that amt each night. They remember!

Sleep is SO important for your sanity and theirs. I am a much better mother with a full nights sleep. I dont know if we were just lucky, but this is what works for us. To each their own. Good Luck and Congrats!

Lissa said...

I agree with the above poster, I also used methods from Babywise. When my kids were infants I would not let them nap for more than an hour and a half at a time. I would then put them to bed around 9 ish, and they would sleep thru the night until about 9 the next morning.

My daughter never cried during bedtime, so we never had a problem with her, but my son is a different story. We started to put him to bed and letting him cry it out at like 15 months. We were cosleepers before then, so it was never an issue.

My kids now, are 5 and 3, and I let them take one nap per day. If they do not feel like taking a nap, they have to stay in their beds for at least an hour. ( i need a break sometimes =]) My 5 year old, usually does not take a nap, so I give her a break and will let her come out after her brother goes to sleep (which he usually does unless we are out and about).

On most nights, they don't give us any trouble about going to sleep although, they make up stuff so they don't have to ie, bathroom, thirsty, i didn't brush my teeth that third time...

It gets easier, really, you just have to remain calm...walk away when it gets to much, and it does get better =]